tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post7780212522499042102..comments2023-12-28T18:17:11.191-05:00Comments on Gruntled Center: Beyond Rebuilding 1Gruntledhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14377809238377382438noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-3534041349114360732010-01-28T14:27:10.184-05:002010-01-28T14:27:10.184-05:00Wow. If I am understanding you correctly I just do...Wow. If I am understanding you correctly I just don't agree at all. There is no Christian calling to be the power. Jesus Christ exemplifies the only power to which a Christian can attain - that of vulnerability, other-centeredness, self-sacrifice. There is no obligation to keep society going, precisely <i>because</i> it requires compromises with sin, pride and self-interest. Indeed, our proclamation is the same as that of Christ - the Kingdom of God is at hand, meaning the world as it currently stands is perishing. Preserving a corrupt society is a lost cause. Our work is to live into the kingdom.Aric Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15241157655075444268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-47265127025757163652010-01-28T08:04:45.007-05:002010-01-28T08:04:45.007-05:00I used to be a Quaker. I think speaking truth to ...I used to be a Quaker. I think speaking truth to power is an honorable calling. I became a Presbyterian, in part, because I felt the complementary calling - to be the power. Responsible organizations are stewards of the whole of society. They (we) are obliged to keep society going, even through necessary compromises with sin, pride, and self-interest. <br /><br />Quakers are an irresponsible sect, which I say in the most respectful way. Being responsible for everything is not their job. But it is ours.Gruntledhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14377809238377382438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-24043535431793929652010-01-28T02:34:20.838-05:002010-01-28T02:34:20.838-05:00I agree Quakers are more self-organizing than pres...I agree Quakers are more self-organizing than presbyterians. No question.<br /><br />I'm curious what you mean by "responsibility" though. Certainly you don't mean "activity for which one can be blamed or credited". The Quakers have been extraordinarily socially active these past few centuries. They have been "responsible" for some of the best Christian work in society - anti-war, anti-slavery, anti-imprisonment etc... <br /><br />Regardless of whether Presbyterians can or ought to be like Quakers, though, there are degrees. I think we could have a more decentralized and spontaneous mode of operation than we presently do. I think it is what people of my generation want. I think it is all they will tolerate actually.Aric Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15241157655075444268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-40092895686767041712010-01-27T23:00:52.762-05:002010-01-27T23:00:52.762-05:00I have only read about it. Some institutions can ...I have only read about it. Some institutions can be self-organizing. Some Christian sects can be, I think, too. My nominee would be Quakers. Magisterial churches, though, like the Presbyterian, are not that kind of organization. To make a rule off the top of my head, the more responsibility an institution has, the more it needs an establishment.Gruntledhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14377809238377382438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-37342900940415948712010-01-27T17:56:46.538-05:002010-01-27T17:56:46.538-05:00Human beings are not starlings, you say, and I ten...Human beings are not starlings, you say, and I tentatively agree. But there are a lot of different ways that we have organized ourselves over the millennia. Some of the best and most successful were not at all decent or orderly, but spontaneous and decentralized. <br /><br />Have you read <a href="http://www.starfishandspider.com/" rel="nofollow">The Starfish and the Spider</a>? It is a fantastic look at "leaderless" organizations.Aric Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15241157655075444268noreply@blogger.com