tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post3951669366960791780..comments2023-12-28T18:17:11.191-05:00Comments on Gruntled Center: Obama's Big YearGruntledhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14377809238377382438noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-37523036367451445252010-03-28T10:33:04.472-04:002010-03-28T10:33:04.472-04:00Found this on wikipedia.
The federal poverty line...Found this on wikipedia.<br /><br />The federal poverty line also excludes income other than cash income, especially welfare benefits. Thus, if food stamps and public housing were successfully raising the standard of living for poverty stricken individuals, then the poverty line figures would not shift since they do not consider the income equivalents of such entitlementsSusienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-85335182248164094672010-03-27T18:39:38.860-04:002010-03-27T18:39:38.860-04:00Anonymous with the numbers on families identified ...Anonymous with the numbers on families identified as poor,<br /><br />Can you identify any of the government reports you refer to?<br /><br />I've been googling your statistics, and all I can find is other people reporting the exact numbers you report, but they do not name any of the reports either. <br /><br />Also, can you provide the year when those numbers were true?SPWestonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08602329486466534720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-9046241432630647722010-03-27T18:10:49.266-04:002010-03-27T18:10:49.266-04:00Latest Anon,
Those stats just say to me that our ...Latest Anon,<br /><br />Those stats just say to me that our educational system has failed to teach financial management. People from every socio-economic level have problems with spending too much and saving too little.<br /><br />Back when my husband was working as a financial planner, there was a client in his firm who made $400,000 a year but had a net worth of only 10K.<br /> He was obviously neither lazy or stupid--he just fell into the same trap of the "American Dream" that so many have fallen into. On the whole, Americans believe that they "deserve" luxuries (be they club memberships and nice cars for the rich or dvd players and cable for the poor). <br /><br />We don't deserve luxuries. But, basic health care is not a luxury it is a basic need. And, we should strive to help all people get their basic needs met.Katienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-33682092837395047752010-03-27T12:45:19.681-04:002010-03-27T12:45:19.681-04:00The following are facts about persons defined as &...The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:<br /><br />Fortysix percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three bedroom house with oneandahalf baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.<br /> <br />Seventy six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.<br /> <br />Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than twothirds have more than two rooms per person. <br />The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)<br /> <br />Nearly threequarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.<br /> <br />Ninetyseven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.<br /> <br />Seventyeight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.<br /> <br />Seventythree percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-4666239640848015502010-03-27T11:58:50.342-04:002010-03-27T11:58:50.342-04:00Yup. Still, it is wrong to let the dumb die from ...Yup. Still, it is wrong to let the dumb die from dumbishness. This is why health care is different from other kinds of stewardship. <br /><br />Most of the stewardship that Calvinists pursue is through education in the greenwood to help us all behave more sensibly. But anyone can need help in the season of the dry wood.Gruntledhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14377809238377382438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-53254114006469431142010-03-27T11:51:47.533-04:002010-03-27T11:51:47.533-04:00It is a poor steward that rewards the lazy. It doe...It is a poor steward that rewards the lazy. It doesn't help the lazy and it demoralizes the non lazy who are expected to subsidize laziness.<br /><br />Dumb is dumb no matter the church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-10625131371371273982010-03-27T10:59:26.019-04:002010-03-27T10:59:26.019-04:00Jesus' charge to Peter. We differ from the Ca...Jesus' charge to Peter. We differ from the Catholics in seeing this as a charge to Christians, rather than to the (Catholic) church alone as an institution.Gruntledhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14377809238377382438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-47071562717269280222010-03-27T10:51:49.659-04:002010-03-27T10:51:49.659-04:00"The Presbyterian Church regards our calling ..."The Presbyterian Church regards our calling to be stewards of all of society."<br /><br />Where does your church find the authority for that calling? Is it scriptural?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-10927843778362358032010-03-26T23:32:50.834-04:002010-03-26T23:32:50.834-04:00The Presbyterian Church regards our calling to be ...The Presbyterian Church regards our calling to be stewards of all of society.Gruntledhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14377809238377382438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-71335320453826464252010-03-26T23:29:46.654-04:002010-03-26T23:29:46.654-04:00"Anonymous, my church thinks that we have to ..."Anonymous, my church thinks that we have to take care of the clueless - even the willfully self-destructive."<br /><br /><br />Really. Why do you say that? Please explain. What do you mean my my church?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-38102425822642520242010-03-26T09:58:08.903-04:002010-03-26T09:58:08.903-04:00Port, my church is rich and generous, and has made...Port, my church is rich and generous, and has made many medical treatment facilities of all kinds, but I know that we are not up to the task of treating everyone. <br /><br />Anonymous, my church thinks that we have to take care of the clueless - even the willfully self-destructive.<br /><br />I don't see any alternative to partnering with the state to get these jobs done. I am open to another suggestion of how we as a nation can do it.Gruntledhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14377809238377382438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-62548230204701286862010-03-26T09:20:26.001-04:002010-03-26T09:20:26.001-04:00Most people right or left want to help the helples...Most people right or left want to help the helpless but not the clueless.<br /><br />This bill helps the clueless and that is what most peolple are against.<br /><br />This is why the President must tour the country to sell a bill that has already passed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-85301503267364670562010-03-26T09:03:41.329-04:002010-03-26T09:03:41.329-04:00The bill creates 10,000 or more I.R.S. agents to e...The bill creates 10,000 or more I.R.S. agents to enforce this charity as you call it.<br /><br />What would Jesus do? Not that I suppose.portnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-43942581542352493462010-03-25T23:02:46.028-04:002010-03-25T23:02:46.028-04:00Port, there is of course a big difference between ...Port, there is of course a big difference between taxation and charity. However, I agree with Katie that if our main objective is to be sure that everyone, even poor people, have health insurance, then self-help, charity, and, in the end, the government are all complementary means to be sure that the end is reached.Gruntledhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14377809238377382438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-60859710634287082972010-03-25T21:33:48.916-04:002010-03-25T21:33:48.916-04:00When the government collects or plunders someone&#...When the government collects or plunders someone's money and gives it to another it is not charity. <br /><br />I'm glad you asked the question because many people are confused about this issue.Portnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-65949956125379404682010-03-25T16:52:16.195-04:002010-03-25T16:52:16.195-04:00Halifax,
I didn't mean to be rude by asking a...Halifax,<br /><br />I didn't mean to be rude by asking a money question--sorry if I offended. Having spent some of my early adulthood living in Asia (where money is discussed like the weather), I'm a bit more casual about such discussions. And, I tend to forget that Americans are really squeamish about money talk.<br /><br />I just find myself wondering where everyone stands on this issue. Aside from the odd wealthy philanthropist, the most consist givers are religious conservatives (If I'm remembering correctly!). But conservatives are the very group that are opposing this bill. To me, regularly giving to charity and supporting this bill seem to naturally go hand in hand. So, I'm just interested to find out what, if any, correlation there might be.<br /><br />And, it appears that there is a Ontario/Quebec divide on the issue of healthcare. The folks in Ontario seem much happier. I'll have to ask what the provincial differences in coverage are.Katienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-31906388777577495762010-03-25T00:22:05.465-04:002010-03-25T00:22:05.465-04:00In response to being asked why it will take until ...In response to being asked why it will take until 2014 for the recently enacted health care reform bill to take full effect, Congressman John Dingell (D-Michigan) said that such time is needed for the government bureaucracy to take the necessary steps to “control the people.”<br /><br />“The harsh fact of the mater is, when you’re going to pass legislation that will cover 300 [million] American people in different ways, it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people.”Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-81823485374690530862010-03-25T00:21:43.781-04:002010-03-25T00:21:43.781-04:00Under the current system, there are three groups o...Under the current system, there are three groups of people who are uninsured: those who can't get insurance, due to prior illness or pre-exisitng conditions, those who are eligible for insurance, but who can't afford it while meeting their basic needs, and those who could be insured, but choose not to be.<br /><br />Only the members of one of these three groups has chosen, some would argue irresponsibly, not to be insured. What about those in the first two groups? If they are uninsured, how exactly are they supposed to get medical care? The answer is that, even now (prior to the new legislation) they still receive some degree of medical care, often in emergency rooms, but almost nothing in the way of preventative care, and with almost no follow up or routine care.<br /><br />My point is that, even prior to the health care bill, our society determined that those without adequate resources would receive some sort of medical care, which would be subsidized by others. As the cost of medical care has increased, and thus the cost of insurance, more and more people have found themselves unable to obtain affordable insurance. I don't think that our society is ready to let those people die on the street if they happen to collapse with a heart attack or get hit by a car, nor to let uninsured children die of easily treatable diseases.<br /><br />I'm not qualified to speak to the particulars of the curent health care bill, because I don't know all the particulars, but a more rational approach to American health care seems to me to be in order. If you're opposed to the notion of a national health care bill on principle, you can take some small comfort in the thought that, one way or another, you've been paying for the health care of the uninsured all along, albeit in a particularly slapdash way.<br /><br />btw: I suspect halifax is right that there is no Constitutional authority for such legislation. I fear that the Federal government abandoned the Constitution a long time ago.Black Seahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16347464061061628147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-88449096779702235132010-03-25T00:05:31.921-04:002010-03-25T00:05:31.921-04:00Black Sea, halifax and Max give me hope for the fu...Black Sea, halifax and Max give me hope for the future. Cheers to you all.Russellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-77452354911465642222010-03-24T19:00:43.208-04:002010-03-24T19:00:43.208-04:00re: pseudonym's entry at 2:28 PM, March 24, 20...re: pseudonym's entry at 2:28 PM, March 24, 2010<br /><br />Your list includes some really good things, but the only item on the list that the Constitution assigns to the Federal government is roads. <br /> <br />No government can guarantee "Human rights" or "Ensur[e]freedom." In fact,government is, by definition, antithetical to freedom and will step all over human rights to achieve its desired ends. Dr. Franklin wasn't kidding when he told a citizen of Philadelphia that the Constitutional Convention had given us a republic, not a monarchy, but "only if [the citizens are alert and] can keep it."<br /><br />Since the Northwest Ordinance of 1787,"Universal Education" has been a local responsibility. <br /><br />The others you list (Scientific research, Regulation and oversight, and "public health, federal housing, welfare" which you define as human rights, but the Constitution surely does not) have merely been assumed by the federal government as an indifferent citizenry slept.Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02067844122370343813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-88590348842846230322010-03-24T15:51:25.917-04:002010-03-24T15:51:25.917-04:00I don't talk about my personal habits on blog ...I don't talk about my personal habits on blog sites.<br /><br />In re the Quebec health care system, I'm glad that you put 'free' in quotation marks because it certainly isn't free here. And, in terms of satisfaction, I have yet to meet any non-Francophone Canadians or Americans in Quebec who have positive things to say about it. But, then again, I don't talk about it much with the locals either.<br /><br />In fact, the one comment that I heard regularly here in Montreal about the American health care debate was that the local population were worried that, if Americans nationalized their health care system, then Quebecers would have nowhere to go to get treated.halifaxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-84407690654459626112010-03-24T15:13:49.051-04:002010-03-24T15:13:49.051-04:00Halifax,
I'm just curious about what kind of ...Halifax,<br /><br />I'm just curious about what kind of "giver" you are. Do you like to make charitable donations (if so, what percentage of your salary before taxes) or do you believe in spending all your hard earned money on yourself? I ask because I'm curious about the giving profiles of people on both sides of this health care debate.<br /><br />Our household is incredibly happy that this bill has passed. But, we're also people who give 10% of our income to charity, too. We really believe in spreading the wealth around and being in favor of this bill seemed like a natural extension of that belief. <br /><br />Also, even though I don't love the Canadian health care system, I have yet to meet a single Canadian here in Ottawa who hasn't been extremely thankful for their "free" medical. Have you found otherwise?Katienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-3277438278348478512010-03-24T15:11:00.534-04:002010-03-24T15:11:00.534-04:00So, pseudonym, before the leviathan state took ove...So, pseudonym, before the leviathan state took over in the early 20th century, the US looked like present-day Somalia. I see that government propaganda is working its wonders. Once more, perhaps some elementary tuition in American (not to say European) history might be in order. (And I think A. Rand is a grade-a moron, by the way.)<br /><br />Susan, I was thinking more along the lines of Switzerland, than the Amish. And, yes, I am a proud isolationist who believes that the past 60 years worth of warfare/welfare state has left us (we Americans) less free than we were before. And I would agree with you that this legislation is not outside of the mainstream of American political culture these days. That's where I happily reside.halifaxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-89086424087162614962010-03-24T14:46:48.103-04:002010-03-24T14:46:48.103-04:00I'd rank winning World War II and then the Col...I'd rank winning World War II and then the Cold War as government work that's also worth some respect.<br /><br />Of course, once could call that just "killing large numbers of people." <br /><br />One who sees America's international role that way may be drawn to monastic-or-Amish retreat from the world or called to prophetic opposition. It's really not the stuff of serious participation in existing civic institutions.SPWestonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08602329486466534720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16201378.post-38053150508677649652010-03-24T14:28:59.224-04:002010-03-24T14:28:59.224-04:00Is there a more cynical political movement than th...Is there a more cynical political movement than the modern right? Government can see big pictures and long term trends in a way that companies cannot. <br /><br />A short list of good US federal government deeds:<br /><br />Infrastructure (roads, bridges, sidewalks, etc.)<br />Scientific research (NASA, NSF, ETC.)<br />Universal Education<br />Regulation and oversight (arguable to the cynical I'll grant, but none of those people live in Picher, Oklahoma or next to the Aral Sea)<br />Human rights including public health, federal housing, welfare (It wasn't the Alabama Police that let blacks into schools, )<br />Ensuring freedom<br /><br />Government is not perfect, and has not done these things perfectly, but these Ayn Randians want us to look to Somalia as a role model.pseudonymnoreply@blogger.com